While we are losing lots of freedoms, we are still freer than the rest of the world. CL is a US based forum. The Philippines doesn't restrict freedom of expression.
Perhaps those who think you should think like they think should try the Venzuelan or Cuban forums. Is there one for Cuba? If not, I wonder why not?
Location: the CRUZ
it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
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Date: 2012-01-31, 3:44AM PHT
Reply to: your anonymous craigslist address will appear here
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REPOST (NCUSA)
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Date: 2012-01-23, 2:10PM PHT
Reply to: your anonymous craigslist address will appear here
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RE:re2: Advice for those marrying Filipinas (NCUSA) (why are there so (NCUSA)
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Date: 2012-01-19, 1:33PM PHT
Reply to: your anonymous craigslist address will appear here
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Nice try old man troll.
I dont really know what issues you have , jealous maybe? sore at the filipina you didn't get?
here is a little knowledge for you po , not all women are whores , not every woman over 18 has been to bed with another person.
Since you constantly show how little you actually know about me or my fiancee, i will feed you a bit of information.
I am as JK has stated no where near retirement age, have some years to go before i hit 40 even and by the time I marry my fiancee she will be 30 , yes and she will still be a virgin ......I plan to respect her descision to wait until our wedding night.
So not even 10 years of age difference, so now you can go pout about it.
Stop playing with the children cheers!
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repost #2
RE:re: lolita chaser (NCUSA)
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Date: 2012-01-20, 1:47AM PHT
Reply to: your anonymous craigslist address will appear here
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As no one here knows the identity of my fiancee or myself , reporting that my fiancee is a virgin is not an issue , hell we are actually proud of that fact
like i said in my last post , if i do not defend her you will say i dont love her, but if i do defend her i am wrong to do so .................you people are screwed up in the head .
what about you ?...............you stated that even if she was a virgin that her anal passage most suredly have been rammed many time.............it hasn't fyi that kind of thinking just proves that you are a worthless degerate that most likely abuses women and possibly lives in his mommy's basement.
Grow up, get a life , walk out side and see what its like to actually make friends in real life...........you might just like it !
sorry that everyone doesn share your view of how all women are whores.............its just not true , no matter how much you wish it.
• Location: NCUSA
•it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
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Date: 2012-01-20, 4:29AM PHT
Reply to: your anonymous craigslist address will appear here
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It is very admirable that you are wanting to find a filipina bride, they are very into traditonal values and love family, altho you WILL locate those that are the exact opposite, do not be discouraged there are great women out there.
First off I would like to direct you the the USCIS (immigration website and get familiar with the process of moving your filipina to the usa, There are several different options , if you marry her in the philippines you can choose either the CR-1 visa , it generally takes a tad longer because it is an immigrant visa ( meaning she will have her green card when she arrives , not further paper work invovled right away.
the K3 visa (philippines marriage) is a non-immigrant visa which means upon her arrival you will have to file for an adjustment of status from non-immigrant to immigrant , then there is more paperwork and fees (personally i am choosing the CR-1
Also i suggest learning the usa poverty levels in your state as you MUST meet 125% of the poverty level for income in order to sponsor your bride to be. or find a sutible (sp?) co-sponsor
Ok that being said here is my suggestions for finding a filipina bride (personal opinions only )
DO's
travel to PH and meet women there as opposed to online
to find a bride stay away from the bars , do not get involved with a bar girl as they have bad reputations for marrying anyone that will move them from the bars, usually leave their husbands after they recieve green card ( or so i hear)
Women like gentlemen, be kind , open doors, ect ect.
Listen to them and hear!
Ask Joe Kano (Cyberville) advise , he knows where the good girls are kept , he is an expat living in the philippines. oh the trolsl hate him too
I know duh right ?.............but you'd be really suprised how much crap women go through with jerks, my fiancee's best friend has had 4 boyfriends since i've known her, and everyone of them has only thought of himself and not her.
Do not's.....................
Do not listen to the hater trolls here who will undoubtly break this post down line by line and try to find fault with it or myself as a long time poster here, they just want to start crap.
Do not I repeat DO NOT act high and mighty because you are white or american, they hate it and it just makes us all look bad.
do not keep a large amount of cash with you i used my atm card when i need to pull a few pesos from the bank, oh yea if you visit another country alert your bank so they wont freeze your account on suspicious" location" use of your account.
Do not get into an argument anywhere be polite say excuse me , and sorry and hello , and ect
You will stick out like a sore thumb, you will be stared at, you will be approached.
In my case i had women and children follow me all over town ( in the provinces) because they never seen many white men before.
sorry my thoughts sounded better in my head , but this should get you started
Location: NCUSA
it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
I called the bank recently and asked if I can transfer money into my USA bank account. Of course they asked me a question before answering. Do I have an account with them? I said yes I do. I was told yes I can transfer and/or make a cash deposit to an American bank account. Went there on a Saturday and was told I couldn't do any banking on Sat even though that particular branch is open every day including Sundays. Ok no problem. The following Tue My wife went to the bank to transfer the money while I went to Ace get some items that we needed for the new house. She came to Ace and told me that she couldn't send the money because I had to sign papers and send it myself. WhaT? Ok so I went to the bank and after waiting more than an hour was eventually told they could give me a Managers Check (same as a "cashier check" back home) and I could just take it back to the USA when I returned. WHAT THE HE. . .. . ... ? Ok back and forth back and forth, finally after two hours I was told I could NOT deposit money into my USA account. DAAAAAAAAANG IT! So I had to Western Union the cash to my relative and have them deposit into my account there.
Filipinos (especially Filipinas) just don't seem to understand the concept of time or direction. Me: Where do you live/stay? Filipina (pointing her lips or waving hand in a non-distinct direction): just there. Me: Where are you I'm here waiting you"? Filipina: where are you? Me: I'm here where we agreed to meet. Where are you, please tell me exactly where you are, I'm double parked. Filipina: "I'm near far, wait". Me: Where d hell is near far? How long before you arrive here? Filipina: what? I'm going there. Wait. Me: You said we'll meet at 10am its now 12:15 and I'm sitting in the hot sun waiting. How long will you be? Filipina: just wait me there, I'm take a shower. AAAAAAHHHHHHHHhhhh!!!
What really gets to me more so now than before is that everyone assumes I'm rich and am willing to toss away my wealth to anyone that asks. And God forbid that I should refuse to just give away my mohney, cell phone, extra soap/shampoo, body/hand lotion, baby powder, soft drinks, or any other food and other items that I may have stocked up on, I will be branded as kuripot - "parsimonious" -- "el cheapo".
My wife and I ate at a small dinner that we frequent pretty often inside sm. When she paid with a P500 they said our change will follow (meaning they didn't have change for P500 but would bring the change to our table when they had another customer). That has happened several times at that same place and other places but that day after we ate we left and it was only later after we had already left sm that my wife remembered we didn't get our change. I text the place and reminded them we didn't get our change and told them we'd get it when we returned. Later that same day we went back to sm to get some items for the house and my wife went to get our change. They told her their money was correct and then said it's only P230 anyway and since "we're rich" we should just forget about it.
Lately I've been doing some construction work on a house we bought. The first guy to give us a quote on some of the work, walked in and said P50,000 to do all the work including materials but insisted on a cash advance without doing any measuring or calculations at all. Then he actually thought I'd hand him 30% cash right then and there even though I didn't even know his name yet. When I explained that I didn't walk around with a lot of cash he acted like everyone else "I'm just kuripot". I told him I'd let him know, but I didn't. My wife called a guy that we were told could do the work. He was even worse. We met at the house and as I was telling him what we wanted he wasn't even listening. He had a preset number as soon as he saw I was a foreigner. He didn't even blink when he said P100,000 without doing any measuring, estimating materials or even knowing which materials we preferred to use. I said we'll let you know, but we didn't. The next guy was working on the house next to us. We asked him how much to do the work. He asked if I just wanted him to just do the labor. I said that will be fine. He said P40,000. I said we'll let you know. Later that day I heard his crew discussing that they'd finally get to eat a good meal because they'd be working for a kano. They obviously didn't know I understand a bit of Tagalog. The next guy gave us a pretty decent price for part of the work but wanted to do day labor for some. He said P450 per day. He admitted that was more than he was making at that time but his reasoning was that they were cheapos and I was a foreigner. At least he was open about it.
I saw a few guys working not far away and stopped to chat. After watching them work a bit I asked how much they'd charge me to do my work. Their prices were more like what Filipinos get here in the Philippines. First they asked about the total area and what I wanted which showed me they took me serious. Actually after calculating their rates I would have been ashamed to pay that for the work. I waited until after the work was finished to see how good they did then I added a bit to what they quoted. Some foreigners complain about other foreigners paying more than they should for services. They claim it makes it harder for cheap foreigners to live here. Perhaps, but I always pay what I feel is fair for all involved.
After me and the guys had agreed to a price I explained what I had run into with other Filipinos. They laughed with me about it and said the others only saw a foreigner and big dollars.
Thru it all I kept my composure but to be honest there was a few times I wanted to squeeze a few necks hard enough to pop their eyes out. The thing is, to survive here; you have to be well informed. I went myself and also sent my wife alone sometimes to get prices from different places to get a good idea of what the actual costs were and to see who was jacking the prices for the kano. Actually most establishments give the same or very nearly the same prices for me as they did my wife. The same can't be said for labor costs, rentals, used vehicles, etc. It's best to shop were the prices are clearly marked if possible. My wife has turned into something of an expert haggler lately. I just explain to her what I want or tell her to just get what she likes and then stand back and watch the negotiations.
Filipinos seem to know more than we do as to what we can afford. If I get a price that's too high I say something like "I can't afford that" which is my way to politely refuse to pay high prices without saying "hey are you krezy"? Almost always the reply is "Oh really, I know you can afford it, you're a foreigner". To which I then reply: you're right I can afford it but I won't pay ridiculous prices just because I'm a foreigner or I ask them how they know how much I can or cannot afford.
I just wanted to get that out. Now I can start afresh tomorrow.
Take care,
Joe Kano!
Location: Cyberville
it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
To Mr. Chicken
I can't see how you can say Filipinos don't know how to cut chicken American style. Just take a look at any of the major grocery stores such as Market-Market right there near you or any of the many SM Grocery stores and you'll see plenty of (as you say) American style cuts of chicken. My wife cuts chicken the same way as you described yet she didn't learn it from an American so perhaps it's not actually American style after all?
What I don't understand is why you expect Filipinos to do things the American way? Why not accept that most things are different here and either get used to it or do everything you want done the "American way" yourself? That shouldn't be too hard for ya. It's what I do. Perhaps Filipinos prefer the way they cut chicken instead of the way Amerikanos think it should be done.
virgins & hymans
My reply: Many things are discussed and talked about more openly and freely here than in the USA. Being a virgin is very important here and there's nothing wrong with openly saying so. That said, I've meet women here that don't seem to actually understand what being a virgin means and others merely twist the meaning into what they prefer.
married to a white guy (in my bedroom)
OP said: 3 years married to a white guy that I met through internet. i don't know what to feel with him anymore. am i fed up with him?
My reply: not even close to being believable. Try again please.
Now for a rant
Filipinos, why do you refuse to give a usable answer when asked a direct question especially when a direct answer is needed? I can usually make do with most things Filipinos do that aren't exactly to my liking but some things really get to me. If I ask a question I get a question in return. My wife always laughs before (or as) she asks me a question as a response to my question to her. I know I've asked her a zillion times to please answer my question BEFORE asking me anything. She knows it will make me cringe but she can't help herself. It seems to be an inborn reflex or something like that.
I cannot stand it (or as my wife says: I have a "hurt" attack) when Filipinos refuse to give usable answers even when it's explained that a direct, to the point reply is needed. I can't begin to talk about all the really important times I've explained my reason(s) for needing an exact answer yet most of the time I still get: When asking where a place is located or the address of a place it's: "there" or "just tell the jeep driver where you want to get off". That doesn't work well when I'm driving a car. When asking where a person is at the moment or where they work/live etc: "here" or "at home" or my favorite "in the Philippines". How about a direct when/what time? That will get a "later" or "next day/last day". Me: Ok so is later an hour, today, tomorrow, next year, next century? Filipina: "Why"? Me: Just answer the question please. Filipina: "Yes"! Me: Yes what? Filipina: "Yes it is". Me: Yes it is what? Filipina: "What"? "I don't get you"? Me: aaaaaAAAAAAHHHHHHhhhhh!
I asked a guy last week that was sitting in front of an official looking building at a five way intersection, where's the brngy hall located? "It's there". I asked there, next door? While pointing with his lips he said "right there" but seemed to mean farther up the main road. I pointed (with my finger) the way his lips seemed to be pointing and asked that way? "He said right there" then added "near the ball court". I said salamat po and continued on my way. Now I'm looking for the brngy hall AND the ball court.
Ask a Filipino how far and most certainly you will hear something like "two rides" or perhaps "near far".
I tell my wife that living here makes me crazy at times. She tells me I was "ol' ready krezy long time before I coming here". I tell her she's driving me insane. She tells me "it's ok for her, it's a short drive na lang".
Filipinos can be frustrating at times to non-Filipinos but ya still gotta love em.
Joe Kano!
Location: Cyberville
it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
A person can be wrong or insulting or stupid.
A person can be right or polite or smart.
It doesn't matter. The RnR section is not a section that usually gets flagged. Or should be.
Despite not liking various posters, I do not flag them.
I do remember making an exception when a bigot was insulting Filipinos & on their own forum.
Certain people certainly have aggravated me. I just let the posts stand.
Someone, probably a user of the prostitutes who apparently are not getting flagged (but are a violation of CL rules) has gone flag crazy.
So that just gives me an opportunity to repost. & the repost is at the top.
None of the flagged posts were in violation of any law or CL rule. None was particularly important.
But the very fact that innocent posts were flagged gives me cause to repost until they are left alone.
Just a principle.
Location: the CRUZ
it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
I tend to disagree w him talking about his fiance's virginity in a public forum & tend to agree w the polite comments (like the last one) on the subject.
However, up til now I said nothing about it. Because (I learned to never start a sentence with Because) it is none of my business & I do not care.
I almost posted some deeper comments but will take the last post (not cheers) to heart & shut up.
In NCUSA's defences, while Joe may personally know NCUSA, I don't think anyone else here does. Since I consider myself friendly w NCUSA, should I ever meet him or his fiance (very unlikely), I certainly will be respectful to both. But the real point is we will never meet. Supposing he lives in NC, I have never been closer to NC than Gatlinburg & now don't think I'll ever be closer than NYC & that isn't likely. If we're both in the Philippines, unless I somehow happen to meet Joe, I doubt our paths will cross.
& I know those (that one, cheerful) who hate him will never meet him.
So he can say all he wants.
Some people, & many single Filipinas are very proud of their intact hyman. They will discuss it in the first 2-3 sentences on some occasions. So NCUSA's gf...or even NCUSA may have gotten caught in the "trap" of following some Filipino thinking on the subject.
Just cuz there are some USA customs regarding manners or respect doesn't mean that those same feelings are shared the world round & specifically in the Philippines. MANY Filipino girls have told me that they are virgins. I am not discussing if they are telling me the truth...nor am I discussing the definition of a virgin. (Some have told me their hyman was breached by a finger but not a penis, etc I ahve heard all kinds of excuses & exceptions). My point here is that FILIPINAS themselves commonly discuss the state of their own virginity...or lack of.
Location: the CRUZ
it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
The negative press attention seems to have had some effect; this November the Philippine government said it would renovate the terminal starting in January. It looks like changes can't come too soon.
it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
as one poster here said you're a Kulang Sa Pansin (KSP) to be posting you nipple for the approval of total strangers. If that's not a pokpok move, i don't know what is.
ewwww kadiri ka kaladkaring babae!!
it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
Maybe you should check her tax returns as well for the last 10 years,, I really interested in what SHE has to hide,, Di Ba?
My sympathies and hope this embarassing period to the Pilpino people and other legitimate congressman as well as Judge Corona ends soon..
On the worlds stage this woman makes the Congress look like a bunch of Clowns and it has caught the eye of the world stage and everybody laughing at this incompetent individual....she is very entertaining though.. But maybe the people that elected her should think about having her recalled... just saying.. it is at least an option.
If you are going to do a railroad job on Judge Corona just do it!!
LMAFO at this joke of a trial!! My sympathies go out to Judge Corona,, The people of the phillipines should stop this before they are a total laughing stock for the world.. But I do admit this congress woman is more entertaining than Eat Bulaga,, my apologies to Tito Vic Sotto!! Sorry Bossing.......
My thanks to ABS/CBN and Kuya Germs for keeping the world informed of this travesty and also of The illegal detention of GMA a full congresswoman currently sitting and ex president,, seems current people in charge only give lip service to freedom and rule of law and break it at will when it is not convenient for them... And kill Reporters when they get to close to the real truth..
Location: Corona fiasco trial/fishing expedition
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There's no reason for you to flag NCUSA's posts so leave these be. We don't need or want a self appointed moderator or at least one that can't stick to the rules himself. The first thing to remember is that this is a RANT and RAVE Board. We are allowed to Rant and Rave. Saying someone is an Idiot based on repeated idiotic posts is a reasonable statement and opinion. Accusing people that you don't personally know of all sorts of illegal and immoral actions with absolutely no basis is not reasonable and should be flagged. But cl requires more than one person to flag which insures equality for all here. So you can zap posts at will, good for you. I can chew gum, scratch my ass and walk at the same time while admiring a pretty womans aaaaaaaaanatomy.
Go out and toss a football or shoot some hoops with the neighborhood kids or something.
Come on, you have to see the totally hilariousness of the FRUITY CHEERIOS ads and the fruity posts by cheerio himself.
One huge point for NCUSA for making me LSHIAPMP (Laugh So Hard I Almost Pee Me Panty).
Joe Kano!
Original Posts by (NCUSA)
RE: re 4: Advice for those marrying Filipinas (NCUSA) (why are there so (NCUSA)
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Date: 2012-01-19, 1:33PM PHT
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I don't really know what issues you have, jealous maybe? Sore at the Filipina you didn't get?
Here is a little knowledge for you po, not all women are whores, and not every woman over 18 has been to bed with another person.
Since you constantly show how little you actually know about me or my fiancée, I will feed you a bit of information.
I am as JK has stated nowhere near retirement age, have some years to go before i hit 40 even and by the time I marry my fiancée she will be 30 , yes and she will still be a virgin ...... I plan to respect her decision to wait until our wedding night.
So not even 10 years of age difference, so now you can go pout about it.
Stop playing with the children cheers!
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repost # 4
As no one here knows the identity of my fiancée or myself , reporting that my fiancée is a virgin is not an issue, hell we are actually proud of that fact.
Like I said in my last post, if I do not defend her you will say i don't love her, but if I do defend her I am wrong to do so .................you people are screwed up in the head.
What about you ?...............you stated that even if she was a virgin that her anal passage most surely have been rammed many time.............it hasn't fyi that kind of thinking just proves that you are a worthless degenerate that most likely abuses women and possibly lives in his mommy's basement.
Grow up, get a life, walk outside and see what it's like to actually make friends in real life...........you might just like it!
Sorry that everyone doesn't share your view of how all women are whores.............it's just not true, no matter how much you wish it.
It is very admirable that you are wanting to find a Filipina bride, they are very into traditional values and love family, altho you WILL locate those that are the exact opposite, do not be discouraged there are great women out there.
First off I would like to direct you the USCIS (immigration website and get familiar with the process of moving your Filipina to the USA, there are several different options, if you marry her in the Philippines you can choose either the CR-1 visa, it generally takes a tad longer because it is an immigrant visa (meaning she will have her green card when she arrives, not further paper work involved right away.
the K3 visa (Philippines marriage) is a non-immigrant visa which means upon her arrival you will have to file for an adjustment of status from non-immigrant to immigrant , then there is more paperwork and fees (personally i am choosing the CR-1
Also I suggest learning the USA poverty levels in your state as you MUST meet 125% of the poverty level for income in order to sponsor your bride to be. or find a suitable co-sponsor
Ok that being said here is my suggestions for finding a Filipina bride (personal opinions only )
DO's
Travel to PH and meet women there as opposed to online.
To find a bride stay away from the bars , do not get involved with a bar girl as they have bad reputations for marrying anyone that will move them from the bars, usually leave their husbands after they receive green card (or so I hear).
Women like gentlemen, to be kind, open doors, etc., etc.
Listen to them and hear!
Ask Joe Kano (Cyberville) advise, he knows where the good girls are kept, he is an expat living in the Philippines. Oh the trolls hate him too.
I know duh right ?.............but you'd be really surprised how much crap women go through with jerks, my fiancée's best friend has had 4 boyfriends since I've known her, and everyone of them has only thought of himself and not her.
Do not's.....................
Do not listen to the hater trolls here who will undoubtedly break this post down line by line and try to find fault with it or myself as a long time poster here, they just want to start crap.
Do not I repeat DO NOT act high and mighty because you are white or American, they hate it and it just makes us all look bad.
Do not keep a large amount of cash with you i used my atm card when i need to pull a few pesos from the bank, oh yea if you visit another country alert your bank so they won't freeze your account on suspicious" location" use of your account.
Do not get into an argument anywhere be polite say excuse me, and sorry and hello, and etc.
________________________________________________________________________________________
You will stick out like a sore thumb, you will be stared at, you will be approached.
In my case I had women and children follow me all over town (in the provinces) because they never seen many white men before.
Sorry my thoughts sounded better in my head, but this should get you started
Location: Cyberville
it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
So my response is:
Has it ever occurred to you that she told you that in confidence? meaning in PRIVATE? That that sort of privileged information was granted to you and you alone? And not meant nor allowed to be broadcasted in craigslist R&R?
Location: Not cheers
it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
she willingly and happily told of her virginity of her own accord ............between you and me i would not care if she had several kids , i would love her the same.
anyone wants to get along with myself , can do so by not makeing rude comments about my fiancee ! including calling me a "pedophile" or " sex tourist" or whatever.
I know my fiancee better than you do, or ever will.
Cheers if you did not make that post ........I appologise , but i cant stand people that talk shit about MY girl!, and when you are one of the biggest shit-slingers on the board you just get accused of stuff you didnt do....sorry
Location: NCUSA
it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
Sigurado sa iyong pagkabata ala ala mahirap? (Are your childhood memories troubling?)
Where you humiliated by the "robust", street wise kids and admonished by the hall monitor?
Did your "sour-caustic" temperament develop early or later as you grew frailer (intellectually as well as physically) than you were already?
Obviously you can't differentiate between sarcasm and idiopathic rambling. There's no excuse for the antisocial behavior you pose.
What brought on the cheerlessness? Were you born with the affliction or was it something that came later (like your mom dropping you on your head . . .. repeatedly)? We want to know, talaga.
I know NCUSA and he is nowhere near retirement age, but thanks for making us laugh.
What kind of mental distress could possibly make an adult say such things so vehemently and frequently cheerless? Are you so far removed from reality that you aren't capable of engaging in reasonable, realistic dialogue without denigration?
Irrational allegations won't compensate for your own inadequacies and insecurities. Could it be that you're decrepit and malevolent? You must have a severe case of psychosis. You speak like a jealous school girl or perhaps more like a soured old horse (nag) spreading malicious rumors. Ya just can't seem to get a handle on normal interactions, discussions and issues, can ya sport?
Oh and BTW: you're not a bunch of strangers but you are an abundance of strangeness.
Enjoy your cheesy sandwich. It's all you have; it's all you will ever have.
Joe Kano @ Cyberville!
Location: Cyberville
it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
INTELLIGENCE operatives of the Zamboanga City Police Office (ZCPO) have arrested "Poison Ivy" in Zamboanga City, a top police official announced Tuesday.
ZCPO Director Edwin de Ocampo said the suspect, Anamae Livrando, 33, was arrested around 10 a.m. Tuesday at a bus terminal in Barangay Guiwan, 3.4 kilometers east of Zamboanga City.
Can't get enough of Sinulog? Watch the winning performances.
Livrando was dubbed as "Poison Ivy" since her modus operandi is to pose as a housemaid looking for a job and once hired, she would feed the household members with food laced with poisonous substances, then rob them of cash and valuables.
The police learned that the suspect has so far victimized 10 Filipino-Chinese families in Manila and Quezon City the past years.
Livrando escaped last November 19 from the Correctional Institution for Women (CIW) in Mandaluyong City while serving a sentence for multiple frustrated homicide and robbery.
De Ocampo said Livrando's arrest came a day after they received information about the suspect's presence in the city.
Investigation revealed that Livrando arrived in Zamboanga last month together with a foreigner fiance and stayed at one of the local hotels.
De Ocampo withheld the identity of the foreigner.
He said Livrando later on stayed at a boarding house and applied for a passport at the Department of Foreign Affairs' (DFA) Zamboanga Consular Office as Kevin Kylie Deniega Cañabando.
The suspect was set to leave for Butuan City via Cagayan de Oro City purposely to try to apply for passport since she failed to secure one in Zamboanga City, he added.
De Ocampo said Livrando was about to slip out of the city since "at first, they failed to identify her among the crowd of passengers waiting for the bus."
"She was wearing a surgical mask to hide her identity, but still the operatives managed to arrest her when she acknowledged when called by her name," he added.
Livrando was arrested by Manila policemen on August 22, 2008 but she escaped from Manila City Jail on February 28, 2009.
She was arrested again on April 7, 2011 by Quezon City policemen and convicted and detained for multiple frustrated homicide and robbery at CIW detention facility until her escape last November 19.
De Ocampo said Livrando even tried to bribe his personnel when she was arrested at the bus terminal.
The CIW is sending personnel to Zamboanga City to get Livrando back to the detention facility in Mandaluyong City. She is temporarily detained at the Bureau of Jail Management and Penology (BJMP)-administered Zamboanga City Reformatory Center (ZCRC), De Ocampo said.
Meanwhile, Mayor Celso Lobregat commended the ZCPO for the arrest of Livrando, a native of Davao Oriental.
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Please don't become the foreigner in stories like this. You never know if they're fleeing from the law and you're the bank account they're using to bribe and escape with.
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Sorry if I sound negative or alarmist or make Filipinas seem bad. That is not my intention. The Filipinas who do not engage in deceptions mentioned above are still the vast majority.
Hopefully this will serve to help you cover another base you might have overlooked.
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Filipino citizens that marry Filipino citizens cannot get divorced and then remarry to anyone here regardless of where they got divorced. The Philippine Government does not recognize divorces between Filipino Citizens.
The Philippines allows divorced foreigners to marry here as long as they show "capacity to marry". Which means you go to the American Embassy pay the fee, wait until you're called, raise your hand and say something like "hey man I'm not married", he hands you a slip of paper and all is well with the world.
Marriage: more fun in the Philippines.
Joe Kano!
Location: Cyberville
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Your best bet (just my opinion) is that there is definitely some bars that cater to American ex-pats. Yes, you will have to go to the infamous P. Burgos street in Makati and find a couple of regular bars. But if you go there and inquire about the Super Bowl, you might actually get a positive response. Just a thought.
Location: Not Manila
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In the Bible it says a couple things about nagging wives which, not really on topic at the moment, are mildly interesting and could make that Dodge look pretty cozy:
Judges 16:16 "With such nagging she prodded him day after day until he was sick to death of it." Been there, right?
Proverbs 21:19 "Better to live in a desert than with a quarrelsome and nagging wife." - or in the cab of a Dodge, I suppose.
Always best to work things out, if possible. Oh, and make sure she enjoys a cold beer now and again. A woman who can't sit down and relax will drive any man completely ape-shit.
Hope all goes well, congratulations to NCUSA, and remember: Keep your stick on the ice!
Location: Simple Man
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In my opinion, looking at it from the US Embassy's position, they will say you (she) are married so she should be petitioned as a wife. And wait like others. If she qualifies for a tourist visa, then I would think that they would issue a visa. However, to me, it seems the qualifying factor to her tourist visa is your money. She gets your money by marriage.
That is not my position but how I think they will see it.
My real suggestion is to see an attorney. I KNOW crafty attorneys can sometimes make things work.
More of my opinion: It is a good thing U will bring your wife here & her mother will stay there. Already she is telling the two of you what will & will not happen.
However, in her eyes, it would be awful to look forward to her daughter's marriage & then not be in it.
Which gets back to my first sentence that US immigration law isn't reasonable or fair. She probably would accept a US wedding if she could attend her daughters' wedding.
Of course, the problem there is she (Mom) may disappear & never return home. Filipinos have a word for it but I forget it.
We need immigration reform. Real punishment for overstaying. Deal with the illegals who actually make legal immigrants wait longer. But that's another can of worms.
Nevermind my opinion. See an attorney. From my personal experience, it is money well worth spending.
Location: the CRUZ
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Cheerio is merely a toothless mutt. Yeah he barks and snarls like a real hound dog but he's toothless, he has no bite, and his threats are totally lame. He's merely a wind bag full of putrid hot air. He's all blow with nothing to show.
All I can tell you is what experience I have. Permanent Visa's are issued as "Probationary" for one year. Prior to the expiration date (about 2 to three months) you should re-apply and if approved, will be granted Permanent Status. The Visa is Permanent which means its good forever (unless it's revoked for whatever reason) but the card does expire, therefore it has to be renewed every five (5) years. The issue date and the card valid until dates are on the back of the card. I hope that clears things up for you?
About the guy saying he's been here for years without a visa: There will always be people that push things to the limit and jails are full of them as proof. It is possible but immigration police look for people that over stay and if/when they are caught they will be jailed and eventually deported. I think it will catch up to him and when it does he will be confined in a very uncomfortable place such as the Bicutan Holding Facility for an indefinite period. Even if you're not nabbed by immigration officers you could be asked for your passport at anytime by any police officer. If it doesn't have an up to date stamp you could be in for a very unpleasant time. A visa is affordable and it's not a big deal to get. Is it really worth taking a chance?
On another yet similar note: Every foreigner living in the Philippines regardless of status must register with the Philippine Immigration within two weeks after the New Year (if memory serves me). The fee is only a few hundred peso.
Joe Kano!
Location: Cyberville
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I didn't reply as I couldn't see the point in trying to tell a 50ish year old he was being played and was acting like a fool.
Anyway seems like something happened along the way and he eventually married the girl that I had introduced to him and they have been happily married five plus years.
While I admit it's possible (not probable) that the bar girl would have been a good wife and really did love him (ok so we all know she didn't) the law of average suggests he made the right choice in going with the girl that had no bar/prostitute experience.
I once had an "online gf" (thank God) that said she had been working as a GRO at a hotel and "simply" explained that she dealt with guests personal needs. Silly me thought that meant she was a receptionist type at a hotel when I learned GRO means (more or less) Guest Relations Officer.
Naivety is such a grand state of being, until ya get a clue!
Joe Kano!
Location: Cyberville
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Some time ago, I was walking down the street looking for beer. It's what a Simple Man does, ok? I'm just minding my own business, as usual, when I see a white guy. Not necessarily odd by itself, but this guy seems a little off. Fists pumping up and down slightly as he paces back and forth in front of a girly-bar, eyes darting this way and that, face a little redder than I would normally find comforting, muttering words under his breath. Seems grumpy.
I started to just walk past as he clearly had no beer at all, but it occurred to me that he might need some simple assistance. Maybe he had lost a wallet. Maybe he was given bad directions. Maybe he was my uncle... who knows. SO, I walked a little closer, keeping out of reach in the event of mental illness, and asked, "You ok, buddy?"
He replied, "Somebody bar-fined my girlfriend!"
Now, I'm amused. Glad I stopped. I looked at my watch and said, "It's only 6pm, she'll be back when she's done. No worries, eh?" I then offered my famous reassuring smile so that he would feel soothed with the idea that by 9pm or so, his sweet little thing - sure, maybe a little stickier than before - would be back in his waiting arms.
He was not so easily comforted. He said, "No, you don't understand!"
Realizing he is new here, I said slowly and in my most comforting tone, "Sir, you're the one who doesn't understand. She'll come back. It's what she does."
He put his hands to his hips and stared at his shoes as I walked away. Did he see my point? I hope so.
The problem is still the same for so many IDIOTS who don't know the rules, but insist on playing the game.
When I first came to the Philippines, I remember going into a girly-bar because the sign out front said "coldest beer in town". That's like a "baited area" for Simple Man and completely unfair. Anyway, I sat down for the advertised cold beer and in no time, a PYT was sitting unusually close to me. She introduced herself as "Candy", or some other clearly fake name. I suck at remembering names. She was a good conversationalist and mentioned she had been working here for two weeks. Nice chatter. I sat for about half an hour before I decided to find cheaper beer somewhere else. As I started to make the "I'm going now" motions, "Candy" placed her hand on my "Very Simple Man" (surprise to me - new here, remember?) and asked if I would like to go in the back for a short time. I immediately knew it wasn't for a Bible study, but an invitation to get to "know her" in a Biblical sense. Not knowing the rules of this game (and having very disturbing images of police raids, aids clinics, and foul-smelling cheap mattresses in my brain) I declined. I learned later that "short time" is an actual item on the menu - not simply a few passing moments.
About a year later, I had had a chance to learn many things while staying mostly out of harm's way and as chance would have it, I found myself passing the same establishment again. I sat down and, sure enough this PYT (I don't remember names, but I sure as hell remember faces) sat down next to me. She said her name was "Candy". Yep. Same girl. For sport, I asked, "So - how long you been working here?" She said: "Two weeks...", then a look of "oh, shit" became her expression as the cocked head and familiar smile of Simple Man hit her brain - and we started laughing.
Bar girls lie. We've been together for two years now. JOKE ONLY!!!
Oh, Crap! SOMEBODY BAR-FINED MY GIRLFRIEND!!!
Location: Simple Man
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Not that I can't see why you'd be upset about the events surrounding your husband and his tryst with the lovely (I'm sure) Hannah but I can't understand why you'd post "beware of Bar girl". It'd be more appropriate to post: "beware of unfaithful, ignorant (ex-)husband".
You really can't blame the bar girl. That's what they do. They work in bars where they regularly hook up with anyone (and I mean anyone) that has money. Bar girls are essentially golddiggers except:
1.) They aren't smart enough to pull of the real scams
2.) They're too lazy to work at having any kind of commitment/relationship so they work in bars to make the easier/faster money.
Any man that would even consider leaving a good wife (or even a sorta ok/mediocre wife) for a bar girl is an idiot, it's that simple. He's a fool (unless you're a terrible wife) and you should kick his ass to the curb for being an idiot.
There are problems in your marriage or daddyO wouldn't be looking to trade you in for a bar girl. I suggest taking a realistic look at yourself, your relationship and how you treat each other every day. Perhaps a few changes in attire, hairdo, make-up, eating/exercising habits and some flirtatious moments could put the spark back into your relationship so that ol' Hannah and her type would be a fading memory. I have no idea what age you two are but sometimes older guys just get overwhelmed by younger, sexier looking women after being with the same woman several years, especially if she puts some good sex on him. I know its idiotic thinking but still it does happen (not only in the Philippines). If you're doing everything you should, then it's obvious my first conclusion was correct (he's an IDIOT).
returning to PH (NCUSA) & (Gods Country):
Congratulations "NCUSA" on the upcoming nuptials and to you "Gods Country" on the reunion with your wife. I know you've both been away for a time (NC a very long time in lovers years) and are anxious to return. I remember the time I returned home. The ache I felt getting on that plane to leave and it seemed like an eternity until I got back here even though it was only a few months.
(Simple Man)
Have you not learned anything here? Didn't you know that we're not allowed to have fun here or write parodies? Writing scenarios such as that could/will brand you as a selfish, disrespectful, woman abusing racist (probably an internet cam site pimp also), even if you do mean it merely as a light-hearted heads up/public service announcement? That post will be copied, dissected, snipped and spun, analyzed, scrutinized, polarized and possibly plagiarized. More than likely you'll end up on some "imaginary most wanted list" and possibly be hunted by every law enforcement agency known to man just as I am now or so it's been told (at least a 100K times -- give or take a few).
BTW: good post and a very common scenario but you forgot the disclaimers: (the ailments may have been changed to protect the guilty or not) (no actual scan cats were harmed in the making of the imaginary events).
LAST but not least: to the FLAGGERS of the latest round of ridiculous posts (in the words of Will Smiths "Hancock" character); "Good Job"!
Take care everyone,
Joe Kano!
Location: Cyberville
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Here's the scam as it plays out:
"Hannah" sends an email, "Hi Baby" (no name because she needs to BCC this to her entire address book) "My mom's hernia transplant took a turn for the worst because the artificial appendix she had put in last month was made in China and the battery went bad. The doctor says she will need to be in the hospital for the next two weeks because the cat died and they can't do the scan right now until they find a new one. Can you please send me another 10,000 to help her so that she won't die from the cheap oxygen? You know I dream of you every night" (as soon as my customers finish with me) "and I wait for our special time together again." (with you and your credit cards - or just the cards is fine) "I know I can make you so happy, baby." (as long as you pay all of my living expenses + LOTS of extra cash)
Now, if you get this email and are STUPID, you rush to Western Union with cash in hand dreaming of your last 30-minute session with Hannah that sent you to the doctor for STD treatment (from her former abusive boy friend/customer of three hours ago who she claims "raped" her - bar girl talk for "no-tip-bastard"). If you're REALLY REALLY "DUMB AS A BRICK" STUPID - I'm not talking garden-variety idiot here, you consider moving in with this prize and letting her run rough-shod through your finances.
On the bright side, your husband will likely come back when he runs out of cash and Hannah moves on to the next one. Wiser? Hopefully.
Moral to the story: DON'T DATE BAR GIRLS! They are "entertainers" only. You can take the girl out of the bar, but you can't take the bar out of the girl.
Hope that helps.
Location: Simple Man
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Joe's take on it:
my unico iho kla ko girl anak m? "Hey man I know your daughter?" Or Possibly "Hey man do you know my daughter?"
boy po
pogi nagmana talaga ikaw sa (deleted)mo... "Boy is handsome like his (Father)"
hahahaha cno kokontra? hahahaha "hahahaha who can/will disagree?"
Kuya (deleted), gusto mo my papaligawan ako (deleted) sa (deleted)gusto mo?
"(Bro), do you want to propose a girl?" (Basically/possibly) "Do you want a gf?"
pinagkaguluhan sa uneta when they watched dancing light akala artista na
weh????
"Lots of people (the mob went wild/crazy, extremely liked, etc) and thought you were a celebrity/star when they watched the dance light???"
di nga, atat...maaari ako pa pagkaguluhan...hahhaha,  "therefore I can be mob hahhaha" (this line is fuzzy for me)
oo nga ask (deleted) "yes just ask"
Location: Molino
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This is true from prostate surgery to contraception.
Why would the Philippines be different? Good doctors in any country can have differing opinions.
Many Filipinos believe in bloodless surgery. There are many quack doctors, particularly in the Philippines, who say they perform bloodless surgery or believe in it. I know many highly educated Filipinas who believe & no amount of arguingor facts will change their minds.
Of course there are many ethical honest doctors who do not believe it.
My point is not to insult any honest doctors, & I believe honest doctors are the majority.
My point is that cheerful looks for excuses to insult Joe. So if Joe questions a doctor, Joe must be nuts.
Sorry, but I didn't read that Joe questions a doctor. Maybe he did...maybe he didn't. I am tired of the nonsense & the arguing & I don't read all of the details. I had to deal with babies when I had kids. They are grown & I don't need to hear the nonsense anymore. My eyes skim over the nonsense but sometimes see some of it. (Comments directed towards cheerful, not Joe.) So I am responding to cheerful's comments about what he says Joe said.
Ahhh, cheerful, do you remember the ORIGINAL subject which you did NOT respond to? Fireworks, hitler, ...
If I am to believe cheerful, then bad boy Joe must be responsible for the Japaneese floods, the US bad economy, & every unwed preg gal in the Philippines. We need to tar & feather Joe.
But let's do cheerful first.
I saw Dr. Phil last night. He was talking about an addict. He said you can tell when she is lying cuz her lips are moving. We can't see cheerful's lips but we can see the nonsense.
Oh,...about those dates of those quotes. This argument has been going on for at least 3 years hat I have seen it. Did you mean April of 2011 or ancient history?
I saw SAN FRANCISCO referenced for the first time. Since that is kinda my neighborhood, I now understand why cheerful suspected me & claimed I was another Joe alias for over one year. Easy to jump to incorrect conclusions & make a fool of yourself.
Location: the CRUZ
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I know things will get worse here before anyone will even consider changes.
Take care Mr. Cruz
Cheerless
cheerios/monkey sniggled: Gosh Joe, thanks for your testimonial regarding your personal use of erectile dysfunction medications.
Poor old guy. This explains alot about your behavior and your abnormal need to control.
(And to think I thought robust was an adjective --> Silly me).
LOLOLOLOLOL
Cheers!~
My reply to the ignorant cheerless cheerio: As always I tell it like it is and you make smart-assed remarks (not to be confused with intelligent remarks). The truth is that as men age they aren't "up" to the tasks as much or often as younger guys but that can vary greatly for different guys. I'm getting older as every living thing does. To deny the fact that you're in the same boat as the rest of us would complete your journey into the abyss you've created for yourself.
The important thing cheerio is that I'm healthy (mentally and physically) and happy. There are lots of things I can't do as fast or as long as I used to but that's not all bad and with age comes wisdom for most of us (you are the exception). No matter what problems I have in life I find ways to overcome them or face facts and come to an understanding with myself and find a way to be happy. I'm not 100% happy all the time but I have a very satisfying and a happy life. Judging by your attitude, it's quite obvious you have more problems than all of us put together and are unhappy with your life, which is why I enjoy your little snippets so much. Your extreme unhappiness shows through in every word you write and for some reason I can't explain, in your case I feel joy knowing you're miserable. You can deny it all you want but it's obvious cheerless.
Please explain LOLOLOLOLOL! Did your key board malfunction? Or did you have a spastic episode and couldn't control yourself? I've noticed you have a lot of issues with self control and taking things to the extreme as most "special" people do. Nuff said.
a friend from europe: you should have gone to the hospital, you're lucky that in your case nothing bad happened. erections lasting that long can become a medical emergency.
Joe replies: I know that I should have visited a doctor/emergency room after several hours but
1) I have this "too tough to see a doctor" mentality thingy going on (always have had) and can't seem to get over it. But then every time I go to a doctor they ask what's my problem and how have I been treating it then they say you're doing everything right keep doing it. Pay the receptionist on your way out.
2) I'm in the Philippines and at the risk of sounding a bit racist (which I'm not), I'll be honest and say I don't have a lot of faith in local doctors. In my limited experience I found one to be competent and several to be completely inept. I've also heard stories from Filipinos about diagnoses by Filipino doctors that are completely mind boggling.
A few years ago a doctor wanted to give my wife a pregnancy test. My wife explained that she didn't need the test because her husband (me) had a vasectomy. The doctor had no idea what a vasectomy was.
My wife visited three different doctors (at my urging) for the same problem and got three different diagnoses (two which were completely ridiculous) and prescriptions.
More than an hour after posting my post it still hadn't shown up but it showed me that it had posted. Cl "ghosts" posts all the time for reasons unknown to me. I had to rewrite the post (actually copied and pasted it) making a few changes here and there so it would post and deleting/changing any words that I thought might have a bearing on why they like to ghost my posts (same thing with this post). I knew erections shouldn't have been a problem but I didn't want to chance it. I only post now as a guest because every couple of days when I try to post using my account, the system says I have to make a new password and I've run out of words and number combinations for a new password and it's more problem than it's worth.
Thank you friend in Europe.
Fireworks (Pasig) said: Is the Philippines so different?
I see allot of rant on here and other forums that put down the Philippines for their celebrations using fireworks and gun fire.
My reply: No Pasig: the Philippines is not different/worse than many other places. This is the Manila site so we "Kanos" mostly talk about the Philippines and or the USA which is where my personal interest are.
I'm not against reasonable celebrations but it really saddens me to see/know that so many people, especially children are hurt so badly and so needlessly every year when there are alternatives available. There has to be better ways to celebrate than to burn, maim, blind and/or blow off fingers and hands of children.
Adults get hurt too but they should know the risks, children don't.
To be honest: I saw a lot of celebrations in the USA before coming here but I never experienced the mass explosions, noise and smoke as I have here. My first Christmas/New year in Metro Manila I discovered how soldiers can get shell shocked. Also I used to be a firefighter and have eaten a lot of smoke but I can't handle the amount of smoke that is generated here during these "celebrations".
Joe Kano!
Location: Molinio
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Is the Philippines so different?
I see allot of rant on here and other forums that put down the Philippines for their celebrations using fireworks and gun fire.
I guess Italy is a third world toilet also.
Location: Pasig
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About a dozen plane flights, including two from the United States, were diverted or canceled early Sunday after dark smog caused by a night of firecracker explosions obscured visibility at Manila's airport, officials said.
Health Secretary Enrique Ona said the number of injuries -- 454 from firecracker blasts and 18 from stray bullets -- was slightly lower than last year but remained alarming.
Injured revelers, including many children, filled hospital emergency rooms in the capital shortly after midnight. Adding to the chaos, two gangs clashed in front of Manila's main government hospital attending to the injured, leaving one man dead from a gunshot wound.
Firecrackers ignited at least three fires that destroyed several houses in the capital area.
"Again, it seems our appeal to mothers to keep their children away from firecrackers wasn't effective," Ona told a news conference.
All of the fingers on farmer Alvin Barroga's right hand were injured by a firecracker that exploded prematurely in northern Isabela province. He writhed in pain as a doctor treated his wounds in a hospital.
"I'll think thrice before lighting one again," he said.
Many Filipinos, largely influenced by Chinese tradition, believe that noisy New Year's celebrations drive away evil and misfortune. But they have carried that superstition to extremes, exploding huge firecrackers and firing guns to welcome the new year despite threats of arrest.
Interior Secretary Jesse Robredo said at least 65 people were arrested for using illegally large firecrackers.
Ona said he was willing to consider a proposal for a total ban on firecrackers but that it needed to be studied. Robredo said minors should be prohibited from exploding firecrackers and penalties for using illegal ones, usually a fine or up to a year in prison, should be increased.
Dozens of hospitals nationwide went on full alert before midnight, their emergency rooms staffed with trauma doctors as if preparing for civil strife. Many people spent the night in hotels for added safety.
Health officials attempted to discourage dangerous celebrations by showing gory pictures of injuries, including hands mangled by firecracker blasts, and the national police chief threatened his men with dismissal if they fired their guns in revelry, but the violent tradition has continued.
Location: the CRUZ
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The first time I took Robust I didn't even know what it was. These two sweet ladies at the neighborhood drug/sari-sari store talked me into trying them. I was told they were "vitamins". Seems they felt I might need some help especially since I had a pretty, younger wife. The ladies told me to take "two or three a day". They gave me three pills in a plain plastic bag and said they were Robust but I didn't know what that was. I knew the ladies pretty well and I knew they wouldn't give me anything bad so I decided to try. I took one while I was there then another at lunch time and the last one later that evening. About half an hour later I started seeing stars. I mean literally there were round lights/spots and stars floating in front of me. It seemed hotter than usual and I felt as if I were going to pass out standing in line at the grocery store. I finally made it home ok but I also had one of the strongest "erec-tions" I'd ever experienced in my life (which lasted more than two days).
No, no, no . . . . . having a "rock hard" hard-on for "two entire days" is NOT cool . It's very uncomfortable, makes it impossible to pee inside the house without peeing on the ceiling not to mention it's embarrassing if you go out in public.
After the effects wore off (which btw scared the hell out of me) I went back and scolded those ladies at the drug store. They laughed so hard I thought they had lost their minds and eventually I had to admit to them it did help . . . . a little. Anyway since then I buy a bottle now and then and whenever I feel like going the extra mile I pop one in and anywhere from 30 minutes to an hour later I'm more than good to go. DO not take more than one pill in a 24 hour period that's an order, ok? Actually one pill every day or two or even three should work wonders for most people unless you have severe problems.
Don't expect to feel like you're 17 to 20 again. They aren't miracle pills but as I said they can give a little extra umph at times when you really need it. No I don't own stock in the company (except when I buy a bottle of pills) or have any other ties to Robust.
And there you have . . . . . "The Rest of the Story".
Take care,
Joe Kano!
Location: Molino
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I hope that I have done something...anything, to make this world a better place than it was before I was born.
I have done wrong but hope the rights are bigger & more important.
I also feel that whatever little good I do...is by far overwhelmed by the many wrongs in the world. Starting with Iran but continuing to many areas of the world. But that is no excuse for me to weaken just cuz others do.
I am not looking for applause. I don't deserve it. My part is too small.
But Mister Cheers (or NY or whoever you are), can you say the same thing?
One more thing cheerful. I was married long ago. I went through a miserable divorce that lasted about 7 years & cost me a mint. You might be surprised to hear that the ex & I get along fine now. No intimacy (at all & neither desire it) but we are close enough that she has a key to my house. But back when we fought (& never resolved anything), she would hit me w a shotgun blast of (untrue) accusations. She would be mad at me for #1. As soon as I succesfully defended myself against #1, instead of making up she would not admit error but assumed she won #1 & then bring up issue #2. Within 20 minutes we've jumped from kids to cars to music to business to ...
Does that sound like you vs me or Joe? You are really against Joe but I became a target because I believe Joe.
No freedom of thought around cheerful.
Stay on the subject.
Location: the CRUZ
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